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I’m a wayward spouse, and my husband and I are a little over three years into reconciliation.

A few weeks ago, my husband reached out to my affair partner’s wife. She didn’t respond at first, but after a few days she messaged him back. Since then, they’ve been in fairly regular contact.

He shows me all the messages . Most of their conversations have centered around the affairs and healing. My affair partner is apparently still denying that the affairs happened, which has left his wife struggling and questioning things. My husband has encouraged her to seek therapy and support, and I believe he genuinely wants to help her.

One additional detail is that my affair partner does not know they are corresponding. As far as we know, those conversations are only between my husband and his wife.

I don’t have a problem with them talking, and I don’t believe anything inappropriate is happening. At the same time, this is a situation I never imagined we’d be in, and I’m trying to understand whether it’s common or healthy in the long run.

Has anyone else experienced this? If you were the betrayed spouse, did talking with the other betrayed spouse help your healing, or did it make it harder to move forward? If you were the wayward spouse, how did you navigate your feelings about it?

I am simply curious whether others have been through something similar and what the outcome was.

I reached out to the OBS to inform her about what happened between our spouses (a ONS-fling at a trade-show and a few text messages after). We exchanged a few emails over the course of several weeks. A couple of years later she emailed me to let me know she divorced and ask me how I was doing. That was the extent of it.

I generally encourage BSs to inform OBSs and share information. Just the facts!

Anything beyond simple inform sharing becomes precarious for plenty of reasons. The most critical reason to keep any interactions between BSs to a minimum is that it can, however vicariously, maintain the connection between the WSs.

I think it is perfectly reasonable for you to ask your hubby to keep his interactions with her to that bare minimum. It is not his job to help her heal. A healthy boundary needs to be established here.

I think unhinged reply is excellent.

Ashamed, when there’s another betrayed partner is only fair to give them the chance to reclaim their stolen agency and decide if the want to live with infidelity or they want out.

I don’t know if your husband has additional goals other than justice and fairness, maybe he’s taking revenge on the Affair Partner who destroyed his life in part, which is correct to say he is irrelevant and worthless, as he has no power over his life besides the power your affair gave him temporarily.

Now he’s harmless to your husband, and his informing OBS is just, if he gets some satisfaction over the AP for what he did it’s also kinda fair, h deserves it.

He might feel a bit better about it and he also might feel some vindication in showing you the AP "lying POS" side, that he denies your existence because you never really mattered to him, you were just free validation in his eyes.

That said, I think the reasons above not to keep contact too close between BSes is very valid.

They can exchange notes and confront the lies between waywards (speculation: if he thinks you didn’t fully come clean and are trickle truing, their exchange of notes may help him to know and save himself from trickle truths, that are as devastating as the affair). They can maybe set a checkpoint in the future.

But they should not be in constant contact. Your boundary here is really making sense. Maybe try to explain to him if he can make it so they do exchange information but it doesn’t become a "relationship " in the sense of colleagues, not romantic. They should heal each other separately and when needed they know they can email each other for help.

No friendship though. They are both still with their waywards, and you might be tempted to contact the AP (or him to contact you) to work out a common story to tell (gentle name for lies, don’t follow it even if tempted, lies will always fall. You risk to sabotage any R if that’s your goal).

You all need space and clarity to heal and find yourself again.
This is fair and may help bs, but it can be a double edged sword and source of triggers if not minimized and very controlled (and their emotional state ain’t the best right now most likely).

My situation is a little different, but similar. The affair was brief and over, but I had confronted the AP and he gave me the impression that his wife knew as well. I later contacted her, and she was in fact NOT aware of the affair, so I unknowingly broke the news to her.

Anyway, she and I spoke a few times after that, and our spouses both knew it. I think the important thing was that there was an open line of communication and that we would share anything we learned. There was no place for our spouses to hide, and it just put everything out in the open.

Ashamedandhopeless,

The advice given is what I would want to happen in my own marriage should the occasion arise - correspondence for situational awareness but no further contact. Trauma bonding is a real thing and as much as I trust my husband, we both now realize we should trust and protect.

Backfromthestorm,

"They can exchange notes and confront the lies between waywards (speculation: if he thinks you didn’t fully come clean and are trickle truing, their exchange of notes may help him to know and save himself from trickle truths, that are as devastating as the affair). They can maybe set a checkpoint in the future."

I’m always curious about this idea and why people think it would work and not cause more confusion.

For example, let’s say I felt I truthfully told my husband my AP made advances towards me first. To my husband it feels really important to him to know who initiated. My AP then tells his wife I made the advances towards him first because I brought him coffee.

Our two spouses talk and because I brought him coffee, I’m the one that’s trickling truth - when I offhandedly brought coffee for everyone and he just happened to be included.

It’s two interpretations from two imperfect narrators - does that mean either thought they were being untruthful?

Maybe I just think about this weirdly.

NotMyIdentity - I can definitely see your point and the risk of that happening. When I first contacted the OBS, I think I phrased it as seeing if the "truth" I was being told matched the "truth" she was being told. Absolutely, EVERYTHING has to be considered and based upon the source. Some info is objective (phone records, texts, etc...) while some will always be open to some level of interpretation.

I’m always curious about this idea and why people think it would work and not cause more confusion.

For example, let’s say I felt I truthfully told my husband my AP made advances towards me first. To my husband it feels really important to him to know who initiated. My AP then tells his wife I made the advances towards him first because I brought him coffee

The comparing notes have sense if there is a full disclosure.

Here’s the thing, when you tell the truth your version never changes. When you lie you add a lot of inconsistencies and details to make something more believable. At each retelling of the story, some of those will get lost or changed because keeping mental notes about lies it’s exhausting.

The brain just can’t keep up because what’s recorded is what truly happened, not the edited version.

And it slips, create more inconsistencies etc.

It’s not foolproof but it can help in catching up the bigger lies.

Imagine that day x a wayward was supposed to be on a work trip and in reality was with the AP. They have "evidence " receipts and whatnot. But the AP told the OBS a different lie, or maybe got exposed in the lie and confessed.

Exchanging notes exposes the Wayward 1 lie.

You can do the same alone, truth always comes out (or better, lies always get caught), this can sometimes speed up things, and help the two BSes to see if their partners are seriously remorseful or just pretending it.

Doing constantly is pointless but with moderation might be useful also psychologically, for they BSes might not feel completely alone and abandoned (it’s a pretty lonely trip)

NotMyIdentity, has your BH had any contact with the OBS?

WhiteCarrera,

"Some info is objective (phone records, texts, etc...) while some will always be open to some level of interpretation."

This is true. I think my mind often leans toward the subjective because that's where most of my questions would probably be.

BackFromTheStorm,

"Here's the thing, when you tell the truth your version never changes."

But what about the way memory works?

Going back to the coffee example, let's say my husband asked if I had ever bought my AP something. I don't find buying coffee for a group of people to necessarily be memorable, so I say no. He later finds out I did technically buy coffee that my AP drank. It's not that it was an intentional lie—it just wasn't something my brain had held onto because I viewed it as pretty mundane.

I couldn't even tell you what I had for breakfast three days ago.

It also assumes that both individuals have reached full disclosure - but maybe one hasn’t and neither betrayed partner is sure which one is there and which one isn’t?

I do completely agree that objective things like timelines, phone records, and text messages can expose deception. I just wonder if, once we move into memories, motives, and interpretations, things get a little murkier.

Unhinged,

He did attempt to contact her, but she never responded. I don't know if she ever saw the message or simply chose not to respond.

[This message edited by NotMyIdentity at 9:04 PM, Monday, July 20th]

It also assumes that both individuals have reached full disclosure - but maybe one hasn’t and neither betrayed partner is sure which one is there and which one isn’t?

Is not a big deal, the thing that matters is when you find out they meet when they denied it first. If one BS gets the confession that they actually met you have the information to know who is lying and who is telling the truth.

Also, while you may find hard to believe, but most betrayed partners knew already when something was up, and they were already hyper alert. Trauma has a way to burn moments in your memory so you remember, emotional imprinting).

This is a real thing, when you question a wayward you usually have a set of those moments that you remember like they are happening now, and back then you were "aware" you were being betrayed (or something was very very wrong, but there is a lot of self denial in defense of the image of your wayward before DDays).

The questions you get aren’t random they are driven by those imprints, and like a puzzle you start piecing up minor moments… it’s messy but hyper vigilance is a weird thing.

The initial exchanges were centered on confirming details. Other betrayed spouse has said however, she really doesn’t want to know any more than she already does. Apparently AP is still more or less denying anything other than a friendship.

My husband spoke with AP very soon after disclosure and he said he had told his wife. Obviously he hadn’t. At that time my husband also reached out to AP’s wife but she didn’t seem to want to hear it or didn’t believe it. She now realizes her husband has been lying to her. They have spoken about how much it has hurt them. They haven’t messaged in a few days so I don’t know if this is something that will continue or not. My husband has said talking to her helped.

Although her husband denies the affair he has told her that I pursued him. Not true at all.

In retrospect, I would say that revealing without any evidence is less helpful to the other spouse. I was not willing to give my evidence to the AP's spouse, and I would still do it again without that. I didn't know where things would go legally and wasn't willing to let him use that before I decided to use it. I do understand how that can create pain and confusion for the other spouse. I'm sorry for that. I was willing to compare timelines and other info.

I would personally not accept my wayward spouse dictating what contact I could or could not have with the affair partner's spouse. It wasn't at all my desire to become besties or have a relationship, but it's not their choice.

The other contact I had was a few years after the affair. (That's as I recall. I don't remember the exact timeline.) My husband's affair partner contacted through a third-party phone call that said she requested a favor and he agreed to it. When he received the call, he said he was busy and would talk later. He immediately let me know. He just ignored the other calls. A week (days, weeks?) later, I was looking through his email for financial statements for income taxes. During the search, I went into his spam and found her request for the favor. She talked like they were long-term great friends. The email client's blocking sends the email to spam which is deleted after 30-60 days. After recovering from the shock, I sent a text to her husband letting him know about the contact. I told him my husband requested that she not contact him again years ago. I offered to send the recent emails. I offered to send him all evidence. I said I would want to know if he sees something similar going forward. He thanked me, and that was it. If I see anything again, I will contact him again. I won't contact her.

They have spoken about how much it has hurt them. They haven’t messaged in a few days so I don’t know if this is something that will continue or not. My husband has said talking to her helped.

Sister, while it may be helpful for few reasons as above, I think your boundary to not have them in contact too much is sound.

I understand both BSes want to work things out and eventually reconcile (your seems to want at least).

I don’t see nothing bad in BH informing BW about AP. That’s just, now she has the chance to reclaim her agency and decide if she wants to live with or out of infidelity.

But BH wants to reconnect with you.

BS are most likely both in emotional chaos.

The topics discussed are intimate and deeply disturbing for both. High emotional charge.

Intimacy shall stay within the couple: you - him — her - AP.

Any other combination is wrong, not only you - AP (that started the affair) but also him - her sharing emotional intimacy is unhealthy *

* not saying that they are going to have any romantic involvement, though it’s not unheard of isn’t likely. It’s about emotional energy that must stay in the couple, even if the relationship was broken by infidelity, that energy is the only thing that might sweep 🧹 out the ashes and prepare the ground for an eventual rebuilding.

You can try to gently affirm this boundary, not by entitlement but explain him that he can exchange notes with her, just not making it constantly, because it’s still a open channel by proxy with you and AP and because you want to work things out and make sure to show he can trust you again.

If you feel ready, maybe you can agree with him some "steps". Just a suggestion but you may propose that you will write down the timeline of the affair and disclose all details you can think of, deliver to him, have him asking you what he needs to know and he thinks is missing and all those things.

Stay no contact with AP and ensure he can see you are strict about it, full access and warning (I suspect AP might try to contact you to work out a common lie to cover his ass, or he may try to intimidate you, seduce you again to manipulate you into covering his ass…. The usual) if AP tries to reach out etc.

Then tell him that when you feedlot you have disclosed all he can compare notes with OBS, make sure you are "naked" open to reveal everything he needs, no matter how uncomfortable (best would be you reveal all upfront, but some things may look to you less important than they are for him, and you might have to wrestle with your shame so I imagine it can be hard to get it all out. But if you can that will be a giant leap forward). Don’t trickle truth.

This is critical, you may not realize yet, trickle truth is like another affair right while you are in the DDays heat. Done in the face of your BS. It’s as, if not more devastating than the infidelity it tries to minimize.

Most wayward fall in this trap, because they want to answer immediately (to get over it) and still protect their shame and minimize. When you catch yourself about trickle trueing, pause, don’t say a lie, tell him "I want to tell you, but I want to tell you the truth you want to hear. I need to win my shame over and gather the courage to tell you the truth without minimizing it. Please give me a moment to get this answer truthfully out" if he asks why you need time (we may think as BS you are inventing a story), tell him the truth, you were just about to tell him but your shame started to make up excuses and minimize the truth to what is "manageable ". Tell him you don’t want to "manage" him you want to confess, and you need to win this internal battle first because you feel repulsed by what you did and you fear he’ll leave you when he sees what you have done.

(Honesty. Along this lines, not necessarily this sentence but express with honesty what feeling or fear makes you resort to trickle truths, so you may not say the truth immediately but you also don’t lie).

Just make sure the pause doesn’t become avoidance, ask for a day or 2 (or how long you feel you comfortably need) to work up the courage and confidence to tell the truth on that particular question. Immediately pausing might be painful and rise suspicion in him, but it’s the best thing to do in the long term to rebuild trust "I caught myself fabricating another lie, I stopped because I lied you enough already. I want to be truthful because I regret what I did, but I have to battle my shadow to win this shame. For us."

I know this stuff above was unrequested in the topic sister, but I felt you might find it helpful.

Although her husband denies the affair he has told her that I pursued him. Not true at all.

The AP is throwing you under the bus, with no hesitation as he didn’t hesitate to throw his wife under the bus. His entire gist is feeling validated as a man.

Better than others for he has 2 (or more) women and he does what he pleases with them.

Better than your husband because you chose him over your husband.

Better than the worthless shit he deep down feels to be, empty, insecure, devoid of love and self love.

Now he’s freaking out because he’s been caught and he realizes he’s not James Bond sipping champagne from a crystal glass but he is the circus clown 🤡 drinking stale piss from a plastic cup while stumbling around.

He will lie, about you about him, he may say unspeakable crap about you, depict you as a slut a psycho, a nymphomaniac or whatever crap he thinks it can make him look "better". He will play the victim and shift all blame on you and his wife.
(Very risky also if you still have feelings for AP you may play along, this is something male AP count on, is different than female AP, they don’t care about your feelings, only your body)

That’s the most likely scenario.

He never cared about you, you were a validation sex doll at best to him. He won’t have any problem throwing you to the wolves to save his ass.

This is another reason why constant contact between BS could backfire. He is the one in full lies mode right now. The kind of bullshit his poor BW is going to get is likely to be monumental.

Comparing notes later might help her to keep him accountable for his lies. Constant communication means his lies will seep in your own couple issues.

Better stay in touch, but keeping distance and boundaries.

AP won’t care what he destroys, as long as he can somewhat escape from accountability.

[This message edited by BackfromtheStorm at 7:24 AM, Tuesday, July 21st]

Let me put this a different way that might make more sense.

If there is an emergency at my house, there is a limited group of people on the front line I can rely on to help. There are my neighbors, first responders, and maybe friends close by if they can come. Im friendly with my neighbors, in part, with that in mind. We will chat about their families and gardens and pets. I host and go to neighborhood parties and funerals and take over a casserole. Sometimes I'm interested and genuinely consider them friends. Sometimes I'm putting in the effort and staying friendly because I want them to help if needed.

On the front line of an affair, there is an even more limited group of people I can rely on to help. One is my oldest brother and the other is my best friend. They will give me unconditional physical and emotional support. One possible ally is the other betrayed spouse. They can notify me if they become aware of new contact between my WH and AP. They can notify me if they have new or different evidence of the nature of the affair, even years after D-day.

Now I understand that my WH will not see the OBS as an ally or part of their supportive community. Why would they? Yet I do. I will put in effort to maintain that relationship if I'm asked to do it. There's a limit, just like there's a limit to how far I'll go to help my neighbor.

Ashamedandhopeless

If you were the betrayed spouse, did talking with the other betrayed spouse help your healing, or did it make it harder to move forward?

From the betrayed side I would say contact with the other betrayed spouse can help when it is about truth agency and checking the reality that was hidden from both people as the hardest part of betrayal is not only what happened but that decisions were being made around you while you did not have the information you needed. So I understand why your husband contacting her may have helped him feel less alone and less trapped inside only one version of the story, that said it probably needs boundaries because two hurt betrayed people can easily end up carrying each others pain as well as their own. Sharing facts is one thing - becoming each others main support is something different and the part that would matter most to me is that you do not make him need her for truth because he still feels he cannot get it fully from you - full disclosure honesty and no trickle truth from you is what gives him the best chance of not needing to keep checking outside the marriage.

There was an article recently in Real Simple magazine authored by Casey Patrick. It was a first-person account about dating a man and later finding out that he was married. It was a long-distance relationship, and they dated for a few years.

when she figured out he was married, she notified his wife.

The author said it made her feel better knowing she wasn't the only one he fooled. She stated that she bonded with the betrayed wife over the experience, and they spoke several times. I chuckled to myself. I think it lacks insight on the part of the author. As a betrayed wife, I wouldn't enjoy talking to this woman. It's not a feel-good Lifetime movie about sisterhood. It's listening to the details of your marriage and life being destroyed. Still, I would stay as friendly as possible and talk often in order to get financial and other details for the divorce. I'd let her boo-hoo and feel bonded as much as I could stand it.

I wonder how much of this is your BH forming a friendship and how much is trying to keep a potential ally close to you.

[This message edited by KitchenDepth5551 at 5:56 PM, Tuesday, July 21st]