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Earlier this week I asked husband ‘where do we go from here’. He hates these types of questions. He is clearly avoidant and doesn’t like conflict or confrontation. He says he feels ‘unsafe’ around me and finds it hard to talk to me about anything. He says he finds a counsellor easy to talk to but not me. Me being ‘not easy to talk to’ was an excuse for cheating early days. But I am feeling increasingly alone anyway and maybe being out of limbo is better than this.

He was conflict avoidant when we met. It has always been a problem for him. It would annoy me early on (and now I wouldn’t continue a relationship on this basis as I know far more) but I accepted who he was and tried not to make him feel bad. So I didn’t usually push him but sometimes I would get frustrated. I am certainly okay with conflict - I feel it’s better out in the open and I’m not a grudge holder. At least if it’s aired any misunderstandings can be clarified. I get cross and get over it quickly. Normally I’d try and put forward my version and defend myself - I regularly talk to people about their issues - I’m told I’m easy to talk to. He made me feel terrible about myself when he was cheating. This being brought up again sucks.

I would tell him he was great at x. I’d tell him every day ‘I love you’. But it was never enough apparently. (I’m not taking the blame by the way, I’m just saying it how I see it).

This led to me asking ‘why are we doing this?’.

It’s clear he’s afraid to put himself out there. Him just telling me x or y using words doesn’t work anymore. And it must be frustrating. I have distanced myself and he is clearly aware.

Easy fixes and easy ways to feel okay may be better for him but it’s not working for me. Not talking is worse , a quiet life is worse.

I said, a year or so ago, that he’s not partner material - that is brought up regularly as if ‘what’s the point’.

He will say ‘so cheatings the only bad thing that can happen in a relationship?’ when I question this he doesn’t elaborate much but I feel this implies I have done terrible things too. I no doubt have been crap over the course of the relationship - but I wouldn’t have ever cheated. And I am struggling due to the cheating.

I was devastated that I was told (prior to discovery of cheating) that I was to blame for our marriage being awful. I actually took on all the blame as I thought he was amazing so it must be my fault. (If I could go back I’d give myself a hug). I’m crying just remembering how I felt then. I felt like the worst person in the world. I was heartbroken. He also implies that’s not true and I didn’t really love him. I did. I really did that’s why I was so heartbroken. That’s why I had pisd. But I can’t convince anyone of anything, I would have tried before, I don’t see the point now.

I’m not really sure what I’m asking you all. It’s not even that coherent. But I appreciate your views and help. Thanks for reading.

How exhausting dealing with someone who evades all accountability, gaslights, and victim-blames. I still hold a grudge against my WH for how he treated me before I discovered the infidelity, making me feel like I wasn't good enough and constantly picking fights so he could justify the cheating to himself. But after DDay, he took accountability and said he always knew something was wrong with him, and he never blamed me. Had he not done so, I think it would have been impossible to R. It's already bad enough as it is!

We have been dealing with his narcissistic parents for years and are currently NC because they won't take responsibility for their abuse toward me or their lifetime neglect and mistreatment of WH. It is maddening just having to know they exist with their victim mentality and have to hear their warped version of events and blame games through the grapevine. I think if abuse-denier were in my home, the situation would be too toxic to continue with.

Your WH needs so much professional help or he will always be miserable, with or without you in his life. I almost feel sorry for him that he will never know how freeing it is to offer someone a sincere apology. Almost.

It sounds from this post like he is not a candidate for R, but only you can know that for sure. I hope he turns this around.

UGH this kind of problem you really don't deserve. I would bet he has always had this type of attitude, from his childhood on. Not sure if you can verify that through any sources but people's personalities are often obvious from very early in their lives. If thst helps you to see that this is not going to be something YOU can change or need to adapt to. Revenger is absolutely right, his inability to "adult" is making him a miserable person, and that would be going on with him, regardless of whether you were in his life or not. I hope you see that.

Assuming that your join date is close to your DDay, your husband is quite behind on what he should be doing, learning, and healing in order to become a safe partner.

I am glad you are starting to see his role more clearly in how you got from here to there because he is a big part of that.

I blamed my husband for my unhappiness, and it was bullshit. We are responsible for our own happiness. We are responsible for working on our end of the relationship.

I feel like a good step is for him to explore what he means about "the only bad thing that can happen and what his role was in doing nothing about t it until his resentments piled up and he used them as entitlements to cheat. Until he can put that together, there will be no remorse. Instead he just walks around feeling justified in what he did.

He hasn’t been to therapy I take it? There has to be some way for a ws to self reflect on what went wrong inside of them and what they will do

Instead moving forward that aligns with their goals.

If you are ready to walk away, it might be time. You can’t move forward in a marriage after infidelity until healing occurs in both sides. He is just standing in place.

[This message edited by hikingout at 4:25 PM, Tuesday, June 17th]

I said, a year or so ago, that he’s not partner material - that is brought up regularly as if ‘what’s the point’.

He brings it up regularly because he knows it's true. A guy who can't or is unwilling to communicate, who blames you for everything, and makes you feel like crap about yourself is not partner material.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 4:11 PM, Tuesday, June 17th]

He was going through counselling while cheating. Presumably as he’d caused himself an issue by choosing to be a liar. I feel he used the counsellor to blow smoke up his arse. He wasn’t honest. He appeared to do a lot of work early days, but trickle truth meant a year later I found out more and it floored me. I was suicidal. I removed my rings and said I’m no longer married.

He has clearly given up as i guess I’m not responding the way he wants me to. He is concerned about revisiting counselling as his was a very bad one. We did lots of things together early after finding out but I have really struggled. He was lying during marriage counselling and I’m reluctant to go back as the marriage didn’t cheat. Being okay was my priority for a couple of years. I was really not good. It’s been three years.

He has said the right stuff at times but I know he’ll say whatever as he’s okay with lying. So words are not enough for me now. They were before cheating. I wasnt perfect but I trusted him. It’s like starting a new relationship but instead of from zero it starts from -200. I now see his flaws and how he was capable of betraying himself and his supposed values. That isn’t attractive and I’ve been honest about that but maybe that plus on his fears.

I think it stems from low self esteem and never feeling enough. But he was enough for me. I really loved him. Flaws and all. He really broke my heart. He doesn’t believe me though. He has his own story and I have to accept that.

He says he’s had to disconnect/step back to protect himself. He can’t explain why he’s still here.

The ‘unsafe’ upsets me so I clearly need to do work around this. I would always have helped him. Setting up a business I helped. Course I helped. Upset about a problem at work, I listened - I’m a bit of a solver - so I realised I could improve and just listen without giving suggestions and I have worked on this. I’ve always been a solver - and I work in a solving problem environment .I’m not sure me not giving suggestions has helped him feel safer around me. But it’s helped me enormously though as I’ve stopped worrying about other peoples problems. It’s great to be honest. A burden gone. I’d have helped anyone then I couldn’t because my world fell apart.

Certain things used to really worry me, I’ve worked on this too. It’s gone too far and I now don’t give a shit about a fair few things. (Not ideal and I will work on this when k have the head space). But I’m honest and transparent, I wear my heart on my sleeve, I get cross but forgive quickly. I admit that I’m not good at certain things but I don’t beat myself up as I’m not a perfectionist (I was as a child). I work hard and try and do the right thing. I do my best for the children. I’m not perfect and I tell them that.

I appreciate he has every right to say he feels unsafe around me. I’m not really sure why he’s here if I am that awful to be around. Sad really. I’d have done anything for him and my family. Yet I’m unsafe to talk to. I guess a counsellor you are lying to is always easy 😁 a wife who knows your flaws and will say ‘but what about when you did z’ isn’t as validating.

I agree he is far behind where he should be. Selfishness or destructiveness or hidden resentment. I’m not sure. Maybe he tells himself this to make him feel better. I think he’s always had either a self destructive streak or a desire for attention or self gratification. Maybe all three. I know I’m collateral damage.

He has expectations sometimes and I clearly disappoint him by not doing it correctly. Or my face may show I’m disappointed or disinterested - sometimes it’s not even what I’m thinking he’s actually misread me. But even if I tell him how I’m feeling it’s not enough. Even though I’m happy to say it how it is!

I’m quite a serious person. I’ll try anything but my past has meant I am maybe not as openly fun loving as other people. I’ll do funny dances and make up silly songs but I’m not as fun as some people. I’ll always laugh at myself though and I really try to research and talk to the kids if one of them has a problem. I’m talk about self esteem and being proud of who you are and how destructive shame is. I know im a good person.

I’m fed up. I want a hug from someone who sees me as being a decent person.

He suffered a bereavement a few years ago and it really affected him and is worried about not getting enough done in life. The irony being our life has been a mess for three years which would almost be funny if this was a tv show. And I can no longer book holidays and plan fun things as I’m in such a bad place.

I asked him to post on here a while back. But he won’t. I think he worries that you guys may hold his feet to the flames. But I may be wrong.

I'm not very experienced with all of his, but it doesn't sound like he's taking much responsibility formhis part in this and is blame shifting.

He will say ‘so cheatings the only bad thing that can happen in a relationship?’

I would say "no, but it's definitely one of the worst things that can happen in a marriage relationship..."

This comes across as more blame shifting to me.

Thank you everyone for your replies.

I have said before if something was so bad in our marriage why not talk about it. Having three kids under 3 was never going to be easy and that is something he was happy to do. He was so excited to have young children close in age. I wasn’t so sure it would be a great idea and yes that was no doubt me suggesting I didn’t love him correctly. I found sleep deprivation while working out of the house for 50 hours a week very very hard. I had insomnia too. My career was always very important as independence and security is important to me.

He said we didn’t go on enough dates, too child focused. But who really wants to babysit three kids under 4 in one go . Now they are older we could be doing that easily. They are really secure and happy to go to sleep overs and to friends for the night - they are well behaved and get lots of invites! But here we are in a mess instead.

I’d love to love him how I did and go out for the day and have child free fun. Theatre, museum, gig, boat trip, meal, walk, hike, gym, bowling, skating - you name it I’ll do it . I’m not fussy but I’m struggling. It’s like a permanent cloud over my head.

Maybe the lack of dates is the crime bigger than cheating.

I have said many times that maybe there are worse things than cheating , but cheating has caused a huge issue. The time to discuss other issues was pre throwing the cheating grenade. And until I have healed from it I cannot fix any other issue. It’s like blowing up your house because the boiler needed fixing.

My husband asked for me to plan one date night a month, and one weekend (or long weekend) trip a quarter. He said exactly what you did- he wanted to feel that companionship. We put a moratorium on affair talks (though that wasn’t always perfect, we broke that rule a few times when it was needed- a whole weekend was kind of long to go without having something come up).

I think this was important to our reconciliation because it did give us an opportunity to remember why we had been together in the first place and what it was we were fighting for. I think that glimmer was important for both of us for entirely different reasons.

I also think that there is an emphasis about not being fun. I have seen some bw’s in particular feel like their husbands thought ap was "fun" which is easy to be after all they didn’t share the responsibilities, the husbands bad days, etc. You might reflect why that part is important to you. (You do not need to answer that here).

In reality, it’s not our job to be fun. I think when that compatibility is there enough to get married, there is a lot of benefits we offer our spouses that we tend to downplay in the aftermath, sort of like we are some consolation prize. I think my husband and I like to have fun, but I would not really describe that to be what I like about our companionship. For me it’s our similar sensibilities which makes us harmonious

I do not know if you can or should reconcile with this man, but reconciling yourself without seeing your traits through a lens of perceiving how this broken person views you would be a worthy endeavor for you. I bet you are fun, and when you are not you have likely been standing on the business of life. Having kids, a home, career, and all the millions of little things this entails with a man of questionable participation- what can you realistically expect of yourself? Notice the good things and grow them. For yourself.

Also it goes without saying that some people in our life are a fountain and some are a drain. In this period of life he is a drain on you. Be your own fountain, follow your own delights. I can tell you have done a lot of healing so far. I think you are heading in the right direction and that’s why it’s getting more obvious to you that he isn’t. Keep focus that you are worthy of your own love, approval, and acceptance. You undoubtedly have a lot of qualities that are likely more important than being fun. Cheering for you.

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:59 PM, Tuesday, June 17th]

Well if she was anything like him she was texting from the comfort of the loo while defecating.

The sexy shi**er is not someone that I’m remotely jealous of It’s about as sexy as a hemmorrhoid.

Karmic Haemorrhoids. affairs are the gift that keeps on giving.

I am sorry- I did not mean to insinuate you were jealous of the ap. That wasn’t on my mind at all You are right about that- because they always affair down and a lot does take place in the shitter

I only meant that sometimes in these cases we try and gauge how our spouse sees us. And I may have misinterpreted you. My intention was just to say, I am sure you are fun. I am sure you try and do what is right. A lot of things take a hit in an affair and all I meant by all of what I was saying is be good to you. Don’t pick yourself apart, focus on giving yourself as much love nd enjoyment you can muster. So sorry if that came out wrong the first time.

[This message edited by hikingout at 8:55 PM, Tuesday, June 17th]

Hiking sorry I was in a rush and that bit I know I’m okay with - it made me think about the texting from the loo and I thought I’d share it I just realised I only ever visualise her/him/it on the loo. (It was online).

I have had other bad stuff happen to me and I’ve always been a bit serious - even as a child. I wish I was a bit more fun and relaxed but I also know if I was, that would change other aspects of me and that wouldn’t be good. But it’s something I’ve thought about myself for a long time and he certainly brought it up while demonising me.

Do I second guess what he thinks of me. Sometimes. I told him that earlier this week as it’s clear he’d given up. But I won’t twist myself into someone I’m not.

He makes bids all the time (Gottman style bids). But I’m struggling. I try to be fun but my little cloud appears. I find it hard.

Regardless I’m proud of who I have been this past three years. It may not be how someone else would have been and others may think my reactions were wrong or pathetic or too much but I did the right thing by me and for my children and I look back at myself with respect and compassion. I’m okay with me. Not perfect but I wouldn’t want to be.

Thank you all for responding. It makes me feel heard. I will reread and think about your words.

I like the fountain analogy btw.

I do feel he drains me and that was something he never did. I loved his lively, upbeat nature. It’s odd as I’m far more extroverted but more serious. I’ll talk to anyone about anything.

I’ll talk to people in queues and get their life story .

I got the entire queue chatting in the store the other day, about what they came in for and what extras they ended up buying that they didn’t need. They were all laughing by the time they left. My kids think it’s hilarious how I talk to everyone. I find it fun.

You DO sound like a fun person!! I have an aunt like that, who will soon turn 90. Right after my uncle passed at age 90, she moved to a congregate living complex and immediately got busy making friends of the entire group of old folks, many of whom think she is a natural comedienne! For years, she played the drum in an Irish Band - even until a year or so ago, with her son on the bagpipes! Meanwhile, my Uncle refused to go anywhere with her or any of his children and was a hoarder. So please know, YOU are not draining the poor man, it's his own sorryness (is that a word?)